[Primer] Boros Burn

[Jonnymagic]

Welp I'm in the 9pm Standard daily. Let's see what we face!

[zemanjaski]

I bet we get paired round 1.

[Jonnymagic]

Watch the world burn?

[Valdarith]

Zem is being a bit arrogant when he says GR is bad, so take that into consideration. It isn't going to go away even if Uw moves to Esper and Mono Black puts their Ultimate Prices back in. It's a deck to be legitimately concerned about, so I can understand others wanting to talk about how to deal with it.

[Self Medicated]

I was specifically responding to the question right above mine of whether it's good vs uw heroic and indirectly stating why I think it's not.

Ah, I see. Did not realize that.

[zemanjaski]

Zem is being a bit arrogant when he says GR is bad, so take that into consideration. It isn't going to go away even if Uw moves to Esper and Mono Black puts their Ultimate Prices back in. It's a deck to be legitimately concerned about, so I can understand others wanting to talk about how to deal with it.

I am NOT trying to be dismissive, but the deck suffers a lot when UWx and MBC WANT to beat it. The archetype got annihilated at GP Melbourne as a result. Good players will of course still have good results with it and my prognosis is conditional on the aforementioned decks TRYING to hate on GR Monsters; but right now, online, that's what is happening and I wouldn't be surprised if we see paper follow suit. I forecast it being slightly under
the Tier 1 decks, only to pop back up and snag wins if anyone forgets about it.

[Jonnymagic]

r1 -- w/r devotion -- won getting down to 1 life both wins, LOL. I guess I can count to 20 only slightly better.

[zemanjaski]

Nice work!

I beat MBC in six minutes. He mad.

[Jonnymagic]

Lolz. My guy was mad too. Kept telling me to play a real deck. I was like, I mean it beat yours so...

[zemanjaski]

It went 9-0 on Day 1 of a GP...its a real deck.

[Jonnymagic]

I miss sparky in the side, lets see how much I do after the tourney.

[Self Medicated]

I hate that shit when you beat someone and they say you're playing a crap deck. How does that logic work? If I just beat you with a crap deck, what does that make you?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Are you Jon Finkle?

[Jonnymagic]

I could pretend to be? That'd be pretty sweet. Naw its a nickname I've had for a long time -- even from before I played magic haha. My previous job was as a children's pastor, and one of my volunteers gave it to me haha.

[zemanjaski]

I have won 2x 8-man queue today, and am 1-0 in the DE. Let's let the streak continue.

[Valdarith]

Zem is being a bit arrogant when he says GR is bad, so take that into consideration. It isn't going to go away even if Uw moves to Esper and Mono Black puts their Ultimate Prices back in. It's a deck to be legitimately concerned about, so I can understand others wanting to talk about how to deal with it.

I am NOT trying to be dismissive, but the deck suffers a lot when UWx and MBC WANT to beat it. The archetype got annihilated at GP Melbourne as a result. Good players will of course still have good results with it and my prognosis is conditional on the aforementioned decks TRYING to
hate on GR Monsters; but right now, online, that's what is happening and I wouldn't be surprised if we see paper follow suit. I forecast it being slightly under the Tier 1 decks, only to pop back up and snag wins if anyone forgets about it.

That's fair. I can see MBC being a bit harder to beat when they don't give free game one victories due to running Bile Blight, but as long as UW purists refuse to splash black I'm going to consider that matchup pretty much a free win for GR/Jund Monsters. It's scary how good it is against UW.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I don't think UW is viable anymore, which only makes me happier as a burn player. Especially because Esper is incentivized not to run Last Breath because it doesn't kill Polukranos or Stormbreath; Doom Blade is so bad against Chandra's Phoenix >:)

[zemanjaski]

1-1.

Lost to Rw Devotion. In Game 3 I needed 1 spell to kill him, drew three straight land. Not even one of those awesome scrylands! Story of my life.

[Jonnymagic]

Got Mono B r2. He was playing an MBC geared toward G/R monsters though I think. Was running Lifebane in the main. Won 2-1. 2-0 currently. Hopefully no G/R r3, lol.

[zemanjaski]

Nice work!

[zemanjaski]

1-0 in another 8-man. I must content myself somehow.

[Jonnymagic]

Get em!

[zemanjaski]

Double mulligan to 5 in both matches. Reality.

[Jonnymagic]

g3 mono u splash w. Mulled to 5 both games also. Dude MAINBOARDS DISPEL, and has multiple copies in his hand both games. Both times he used it he had only one mana up, and it was the lethal spell. GG lol. 2-1. Really frustrating game haha.

[zemanjaski]

Lost in the DE, won the finals of the 8-man queue, on a mull to 5.

[zemanjaski]

3 x 3-0 in DEs, guess I cannot complain. That's 7-2 today. One more let's go go go go.

[Mr. Metronome]

Tested a lot of Burn vs Esper tonight with DXI-Edge (we're PTQing this weekend), the matchup felt really terrible without access to Firedrinker Satyr. All Esper had to do to win was counter one spell, remove one creature, and then land a blood baron. Esper won past Burning Earth twice, on top of that.

We're testing it some more tomorrow with Firedrinkers in the board, if we can't beat Baron we can't bring this deck to the PTQ.

I'm likely on Esper this weekend, but I just built Burn online (forget buying ~15 mythics for esper, also allows double queuing once I'm more practiced with the deck), so I'll be joining in on the event grinding!

[zemanjaski]

1-0.

[zemanjaski]

2-1, I sure am getting a lot of mulligans in my 23 land with 8 scry effect red deck

[zemanjaski]

Tested a lot of Burn vs Esper tonight with DXI-Edge (we're PTQing this weekend), the matchup felt really terrible without access to Firedrinker Satyr. All Esper had to do to win was counter one spell, remove one creature, and then land a blood baron. Esper won past Burning Earth twice, on top of that.

We're testing it some more tomorrow with Firedrinkers in the board, if we can't beat Baron we can't bring this deck to the PTQ.

I'm likely on Esper this weekend, but I just built Burn online (forget buying ~15 mythics for esper, also allows double queuing once I'm more practiced with the deck), so I'll be joining in on the event grinding!

Strange, I am not sure why he is having so much difficulty. I am not saying it is super
favourable, but I am keeping data and I am about 60% in the matchup. If you guys want to get at me via skype or something to discuss, let me know.

[Jonnymagic]

Ended 3-1. Played b/w midrange. It feels like a terrible matchup, and I just happened to have skullcrack at the right times. I don't like the s/b vs that matchup at all, and I feel its going to be more of a deck. Chandra's outrage or mortar's might be needed to consistently win that matchup. IDK for sure. I feel we have to mull a ton as well, and this deck doesn't like to mull at all really because we need as much gas as possible. I don't know what the solution is. A few plains? Do we add some more white things in to make it worth it? I don't know what they would be to warrant that, it just feels we have to lose a decent amount of tempo to account for all the tapped lands. Maybe its just late and I'm overthinking it =D. Either way, was a good DE.

[Mr. Metronome]

I haven't had to mull very much with the deck tbh, the deck is mostly damage + lands, so a lot of combinations of lands/spells are keepable. It's just variance, a 60-70% winrate is still very solid.

[DXI-Edge]

Because Firedrinker forced them into situations where they needed to answer him, opening up the way for Phoenix/Zealot later on and even Firstblade.

Chandra/Burning earth had little to no impact early, and against an Esper deck with elixir and 4 sideboarded Blood Baron's, he just won if the game went too late. Firedrinker helps stop that.

Plus, having 2 Searing blood instead of Magma Jet would allow me to 2-for-1 his Blood Baron without losing tempo, which I wasnt doing. I was siding all 4 out, which I think is wrong.

[zemanjaski]

I am 61.8% against the field, with 52 matches played.

[Mr. Metronome]

Tested a lot of Burn vs Esper tonight with DXI-Edge (we're PTQing this weekend), the matchup felt really terrible without access to Firedrinker Satyr. All Esper had to do to win was counter one spell, remove one creature, and then land a blood baron. Esper won past Burning Earth twice, on top of that.

We're testing it some more tomorrow with Firedrinkers in the board, if we can't beat Baron we can't bring this deck to the PTQ.

I'm likely on Esper this weekend, but I just built Burn online (forget buying ~15 mythics for esper, also allows double queuing once I'm more practiced with the deck)
, so I'll be joining in on the event grinding!

Strange, I am not sure why he is having so much difficulty. I am not saying it is super favourable, but I am keeping data and I am about 60% in the matchup. If you guys want to get at me via skype or something to discuss, let me know.

I too have a pretty good winrate against Esper on MTGO, but I still have Firedrinkers in the board, and they didn't cast Blood Baron against me once.

As soon as blood baron sticks, you have to either two for one yourself to kill it, which gains the esper player 4-5 life, or it will completely take over the game.

[LP, of the Fires]

I am 61.8% against the field, with 52 matches played.

Neglected to ask this. Game or match%? Assuming game.

[zemanjaski]

Game.

[calebjmr]

Came back from my LGS with my prior decklist and [card]Chandra's Outrage[/card] was a HOUSE.

Also, throwing out my Sparkles--I'm just not feeling it for 4 mana, especially against removal decks--if they had any open mana I was thinking twice. Swapping them out for two Mizzium Mortars and I think I'm done. I need a lot more testing before I can find any other tweaks.

I went 4-1, my only loss was to this bant ramp combo deck with Prophet of Kruphix, Heliod, God of the Sun, and nearly infinite cleric tokens. Guess what would've won? Mizzium Mortars. Our G2 he combo'd into Courser of Kruphix + Archangel of Thune and it was GG.

[zemanjaski]

Current data (70 matches, now includes 15 rounds of GP data):

Data presented as game 1; after sideboard; overall

BW Midrange; 80%; 44.5%; 57%
GR Monsters; 33%; 55.5%; 46.7%
RW Burn; 33%; 89%; 66.7%
MBC; 64.7%; 59%; 61.5%
GW Aggro; 33%; 66.7%; 55.5%
Mono U; 50%; 50%; 50% (4 matches only)

Then there is rogue stuff or results that aren't statistically worth discussing. This is a good start; I am starting to increase the win% as I get more familiar with the deck's capabilities too.

[magicdownunder]

No data on BW Control? Not the crappy MBC with W splash but the version with 8-9 forms of discards. Doesn't seem like a MU heavy burns can win.