[Primer] Boros Burn

[LaZerBurn]

Good points Purp

[JohnnyfnB]

@ Purp: I don't completely disagree with you, but SBD doesn't have to be sac'd at the end step. I will use Mike Flores math regarding SBD 4+4+7. If we can swing 3 times and monstrosity with SBD, you only need to do 5 pts of damage before turn 5. We know that's really easy. SBD can improve our tough match ups. B/W mid we have a blocker that kills Blood Baron and lives. G/R and Jund they have removal at sorcery speed and it's limited, so we will get value out of SBD. It's situational against hexproof, but gives constant pressure and can block a white creature. Hopefully it won't have Unflinching Courage on it.

[Lightning_Dolt]

If you have enough mana to monstrous a dragon, you've already lost the game.

[rcwraspy]

My suggested list re: Zem's desire for specific matches

[deck]
Creatures - 9
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells - 28
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
3 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix

Land - 23
3 Mutavault
3 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
9 Mountain

Sideboard - 15
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Mutavault
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Blind Obedience
3 Viashino Firstblade
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Searing Blood
[/deck]

New card is Renounce the Guilds but it blows out Reaper of the Wilds, Domri, Detention Sphere, Blood Baron, Obzedat, Ephara, etc.

[zemanjaski]

Nice guys.

I like;
- the idea of Renounce, though it *might* be too narrow (yes, I run Firstblade also). I tested it a bunch last season and hated it. Maybe it's better now? Quite possibly. Thing is that Reaper, Domri and Xenagos aren't the cards that beat burn, at least in my experience. Daddy hydra and the mana acceleration are the main culprits IMO.
- the idea of spark trooper as a 1-of back in the 75. Purp's readoning is very convincing for me. Four is A LOT less than 5 and gaining six is a big game. I don't want two copies; that's raising my curve too much; but access to five high impact life gain spells would be nice, many decks have real trouble beating two helix and this increase the likelihood of those draws.
- 3/3/3 split of chained/searing/shock felt good. Going from 2 to 3 answers to Polukranos and Desecration Demon for Game 1 is a big game.

Now that my head is more clear, I don't think the Blind
Obedience will be a good choice for this weekend. The card is most powerful and Rx Aggro, Burn and GR. There will be GR but I don't think that much; it did so badly at GP Melbourne that I know many people sold off the deck; Esper and MBC are popular and both can be rough matchups (both decks can wreck GR if they make the effort too).

Mono U will also be popular, I know three pilots at least wil be attending. That's what pushes me away from Obedience; there are good plans available for GR and Mono U, but Obedience only targets one of those decks. Firedancer isn't as solid vs. GR but it just destroys Mono U. I also think I'm just a more competent pilot than I was a few weeks ago so I feel ill use the card better; it's also a nice hedge against random creature decks (GR Devotion, White Weenie, GW Littlekid; fringe stuff like that).

I expect the BIG deck of the weekend to be Esper. The 'best' players attending are all control players and the best
control deck is Esper. With that on mind, I want an edge on that matchup Game 1. The best way to do that is to at least threaten curving out, which means that this manabase should be the best:

2 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
10 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

The 14th untapped red source makes Ash Zealot and Firedrinker Satyr more powerful against control. I'm not hurting for white mana game 1; post board, having removed Blind Obedience*, I don't need as much white, though mr. Viashino will be slightly weakened (I'm not half a source short, but on the flipside I have more untapped lands).

*i wil still run Obedience on mtgo where it's a total beating.

With that in mind, the 75 ill test (in paper) will be:

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn for GPT Nagoya]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3
Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

Obvious plans are obvious for UWx, GRx Monsters and Mono U. I need to test whether I want to be all creatures or none vs. Bx Devotion; I've had success with both but more testing is important.

Thanks to everyone for picking me up when I fall down. The community effort and team work displayed is truly uplifting and I'm very glad that it's not just me benefitting for tuning; we're all finding our own successes and growth, together.

Today's episode of metagaming is brought to you by the letter V, for victory

[JohnnyfnB]

Wow Zem, that's a trek. Totally agree with your reasoning and most of the changes. I've actually considered removing the guild gates all together. This deck relies on instant spells and mana efficiency and you can't use a tapped land. Regarding your sb, do you feel that you can deal with G/R, Jund, B/W mid? I know you said that you expect a lot of control, but those are the decks toughest MU's.

[BlakLanner]

What would you use in place of the guildgates that would give us the colored mana that we require?

[JohnnyfnB]

2 Mountain and 1 Plain

[JohnnyfnB]

I might have to do 1 Mountain and 2 Plain, depending on how games go. I am making the change and will be testing tomorrow and using it for FNM.

[Jonnymagic]

Guildgates are fine -- this deck can sequence its plays properly to not waste the fact some land come in tapped. Granted, you get the occasional awkward draw of temple/guildgate -- but they happen very rarely.

[zemanjaski]

I don't expect much GR or Jund, because the prevailing opinion is that they're bad against Esper and MBC which will be popular. Without Obedience I think I'll be back to sub-50 vs. GR, but I've learned some tricks, my deck is more tuned and overall better configured to fight them now. Jund is effectively a worse version of GR, at least against Burn; the power level of the cards isn't relevant to Burn (eg: Dreadbore vs. Mortars, I couldn't care less) so their slightly more orevalent mana inconsistencies matter. Note also that my plan is more proactive now, so I can catch up from behind, whereas before that was very difficult (drawing BO after threat is resolved for example). If GR is slightly unfavourable (I'd say 45% with this config against an equally skilled pilot) then Jund would be even at worst.

I don't expect to see much BW. There was very little at the GP and people are getting out of standard, not buying
into it right now. It's less favourable than MBC but I'm winning more than I lose

You need to run some number of Guildgate just to make you necessary coloured sources.

[Jonnymagic]

The only argument I might make for BO Zem is that you may play a lot of the mirror. Granted, your the best pilot of the deck so it shouldn't be an issue -- but at least it will make up for a mull to a have to keep bad 6 type situation. Just a thought. You'll probably be 100% fine vs the mirror though =D. If I had to take something out for it I'd say 1 mortars 1 chained or 1 sparky.

[JohnnyfnB]

Excellent point Jonnymagic.

[LP, of the Fires]

Well, Jund just one a gp so. .

[JohnnyfnB]

Props to Zem!!!
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... tions.html

[Jonnymagic]

ZEM HAS BROKEN THE METAGAME!!!111

[GodzillaAteMe]

Just want to say there's a LOT of this deck at my local meta now, but I believe I am the only one who reads DTR. I've been ahead of the game running the Ash Zealot list for a while, while the others still run the YP and MD Firedancer build still. Thanks to this thread, I've been 100% in the mirror this past month (shout out to whoever suggested Wild Ricochet; it's targeted 3 boros charms so far).

Going to get some testing in today, will test out the changes listed here like the SBD main.

[PrimalBurn]

Speaking of local meta, mine is still filled with UW and GW aggro so I still feel the need to main 3 SFD. I wanted to get some of yalls thoughts on putting the 4th is the SB. Am I becoming too reliant on the card or is it reasonable to want access to a forth copy in an aggro heavy meta?

[BlakLanner]

When a card is such a beating against most of your meta, it is hard to say you can get "too reliant" on it. You can win without it but the matches get much easier when you resolve one. I would consider a 4th if you really face that many decks where it is that good.

[zemanjaski]

Props to Zem!!!
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... tions.html

Link doesn't work for me.

[PrimalBurn]

Its a conspiracy Z! They just don't want you knowing you have a positive impact on this game

[rcwraspy]

Nice guys.

I like;
- the idea of Renounce, though it *might* be too narrow (yes, I run Firstblade also). I tested it a bunch last season and hated it. Maybe it's better now? Quite possibly. Thing is that Reaper, Domri and Xenagos aren't the cards that beat burn, at least in my experience. Daddy hydra and the mana acceleration are the main culprits IMO.

I'm just gonna quote this part since everything else you said either makes perfect sense or is meta-based.

And this makes sense too, but I have a couple things to add.
1. Yes, you're running Firstblades also, especially in that Control matchup, but consider these two lines:
A. You've already hit 4 with Firstblade and it's a couple turns later and he's a 2/2. You also have a
Phoenix, but it gets snagged by a D-Sphere. What would you rather do? Keep beating with something that they can trade a Mutavault for, or swap it for your flying beater with recursion?
B. If Firstblade gets tucked under a D-Sphere and you blow it up, you get your ETB trigger again

I'm also going to test out Fated Conflagration. If big daddy hydra is the #1 problem, this spell solves it. Can also hit Obzedat, Blood Baron, and any 'walker and the scy is relevant too.

[rcwraspy]

Props to Zem!!!
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... tions.html

Link doesn't work for me.

He said you've been demolishing MTGO w/ your R/W list

[zemanjaski]

I don't know who "he" is but yeah, pretty sure I'm the no. 1 guy on mtgo this month.

[zemanjaski]

Raspy don't tempt me with Viashino triggers, that's unfair.

Write up some notes on conflagration when you're more familiar with the card; I've not had a chance to test with it.

[Kaitscralt]

I don't know who "he" is but yeah, pretty sure I'm the no. 1 guy on mtgo this month.

#1 based on what?

[zemanjaski]

No one else as far as I can tell from the rankings, has 66 QPs this month. That's probably not the best measure of success upon reflection, or the most accurate.

[zemanjaski]

What do we think of Ariel Nagy's manabase from the GP? He ran 1 Boros Guildgate, 1 Temple of Malice, 1 Temple of Silence instead of 3 Boros Guildgates.

[BlakLanner]

The scry is nice but I worry that our colored mana requirements are too high to risk using off-color lands.

[JohnnyfnB]

Zem it was Mark Nestico from Starcitygames saying This list is a pretty interesting deviation from what I've been writing about for a few weeks, not to mention what Australian player James Fazzolari has been using to demolish Magic Online."

[zemanjaski]

Australian? Channel Fireball player...oh SCG don't change.

[Purp]

1 Boros Guildgate, 1 Temple of Malice, 1 Temple of Silence instead of 3 Boros Guildgates

What?

[JohnnyfnB]

The scry is nice but I worry that our colored mana requirements are too high to risk using off-color lands.

I honestly think that the mana requirements are over thought. With those 2 scry lands you get one red and one white source and can scry. It shouldn't be an issue, can you get screwed early, yes. I drew 3 Temple of triumphs followed by a guild gate. I wanted to fucking kill someone. I was also playing against an aggro deck at the time.

[Jonnymagic]

@Z I've used fated now and run it over mortars. This is due to the fact I'm tired of losing to ghost daddy. It has the side bonus of being good against polu and walkers. Its more expensive, yes. But on the draw we generally are responding to their answers and beating them down with recurring pressure. I love FC now. If it was 3 mana it'd be in my main deck. As is, I'm loving having two. Mortars is a bit more versatile and tempo oriented, but man it feels good having an answer that blanks their biggest threat (be it a walker or fatty).

[Purp]

I don't dislike the other burn players SB from the GP:

1 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Satyr Firedancer
2 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade

Only runs 3 chains total

[zenbitz]

I played a couple generic aggro (RB and WW/devotion) matches and really missed firedancer. Mostly I play random LGS meta and people play creatures and stuff.

I would be scared to only play 3 chains.

Have fun in Japan!

[gabriel_404]

I played a couple generic aggro (RB and WW/devotion) matches and really missed firedancer. Mostly I play random LGS meta and people play creatures and stuff.

I would be scared to only play 3 chains.

Agree completely with zenbitz. I have only played one creature deck (Rakdos aggro) where I didn't want all 4 Chains.

Also I am not liking 3 Guildgates. I sometimes would like two white sources late-game but I never NEED more than one early, and I don't mind a CIPT land on turn one so that usually covers me. I always want lots of red early. Is this the right thinking about it? It's possible I need to play more.

[Aodh]

We are NECESSARILY running 3 guildgates for 11 white sources and 20 red sources.

[Aodh]

And 11 white is the minimum we want. 13 is ideal, but unless we go without Mutavaults, or go up to 25 land with 4 dragons, it's simply not possible.

[Purp]

[deck]Creatures (14)

4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 YP$
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers (2)

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)

11 Mountain
2 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Spells (20)

3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
2 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Spark Trooper
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

Just watched a guy fated his own reckonr to deal 5.