[Primer] Boros Burn

[zenbitz]

I have no problem with either (3 or 4) in the sideboard... I just wouldn't put in DANCER vs. control. FireDRINKER I sometimes wonder if he should go in some non-control matchups (clearly he's awesome vs true control) like MBD or BW. I accidentally used him vs. RB control once.

[Staind Diablo]

I wonder about Drinker too, and am still not sure if in MBD or BW we want them to add creatures and have threats even though they have removal, or if we want to sb all crits out like Z had previously mentioned so that they have dead cards. I find MBD and BW to be kinda tough, but I have read several people say that MBD in particular should be a very good matchup. So, not sure what I am doing wrong. I definitely beat it sometimes, but its more like 50-50, and not a great matchup like I have read people say. Like I said above, I plan on trying YP md with zealot and phoenix, and I would think Drinker would be a good sb addition against MBD and BW if the creature count was already higher, esp if YP is dropping tokens. I have yet to test all that though.

[Kaitscralt]

i think the real question is, why does firedrinker come before satyr but satyr come before firedancer

what's going on

who am i

[Elricity]

How is firedancer good vs. UWx control? I feel like I missed a memo. Zem has FireDRINKER for control, doesn't he?

it was Zem so I didn't question it.

With Z's decks in particular, you don't want to go into that mindset because Z doesn't make copy/paste decks. If you go back even a few pages, you see the deck actually has a number of options in cards and he shuffles between them depending on meta.

Besides, you need to be able to evaluate the strengths of each card because sequencing in this deck changes very frequently turn to turn.

P.S. I got in the habit
of calling them dancers and drinkers. They're satyrs, you know it's a drunken frat party anyway. And I'm now tempted to call the deck that.

[amcfvieira]

Im in the camp of against the 24th land. In our deck right now we have no efficient mana sinks for extra lands. Seeing land number 5 in our deck is much worse than being stuck on 3, the 5th land can not do anything by itself as we have only 2 cards in the deck(Shock&CtR) that would benefit from a floating mana, and they do not match in color. Land number 5 needs land number 6 to reach maximum value as this is the point where our castable cards goes up allowing us to cast 3 spells a turn or helix + spell.

5 lands also cannot be solved by treating it as a muta vault source as 5 lands still leaves us with only 3 for casting, meaning the 6th land is need to return to the ability to cast 2 spells a turn or threaten helix.

The fifth land only benefits one
scenario of recurring and casting phoenix, which our deck will already do quite often.

I typically mulligan 4 land hands as for this deck, if any of the next 3 cards are lands it is really going to hurt.

I feel the deck would much rather be starved then flooded as with significant changes to our structure each land drawn beyond the 4 begins to pull on the deck's power. If we were to move to 24 lands I think we would need to find a decent repeatable sink for the extra land, we would need a Kitten mittens type of effect which atm is attached to Big Daddy Purp which does nothing for our deck. Hammer of Purphoros is our only decent sink for this deck to make use of extra lands atm, and I would argue that shaving off the 4 spot to be a better answer.

I prefer be flooded at 5 lands or more that screwed at 3, for sure. Flooded I can cast my spells when I have it, Screwed simply can cast the spells.
For sinker we have already Mutavault and can always
bluff because we cast the majority of our spells at instant speed. But this is my personal opinion. I will test more 24 lands. Maybe 23 is the right number, but for now I will play 24.

[Mr. Metronome]

How do the games play out? How are you sideboarding? What role are you taking and how are you evaluating priorities and threats?

I ask because I crush red aggro.

I generally try to remove every creature he plays, run out of removal, and then die before being able to take over the game with a Phoenix/Vaults.

Ash Zealot can't stay back on defense, it just gets MJ'd/Blood'd/Shocked.

I feel like the only way I can possibly beat Turn 1 FDS/Cackler Turn 2 BTE -> Gore-House/Firefist Turn 3 Phoenix/Ash Zealot/Swing Mutavault would be Anger of the Gods.

I guess it's possible that I'm playing the matchup wrong, but it really doesn't feel like there's anything I could be doing differently.

[lorddax]

I still disagree that flooding is better than screwed as we only have a single spell that wants 4 lands; but I do need to back this up so I may try to test both. I'm just very against/paranoid drawing land #5 when needing gas to close, course this could also be due to drawing 3 straight lands on the last game of match that would have got me a t4 spot at the PTQ.

[Elricity]

How do the games play out? How are you sideboarding? What role are you taking and how are you evaluating priorities and threats?

I ask because I crush red aggro.

I generally try to remove every creature he plays, run out of removal, and then die before being able to take over the game with a Phoenix/Vaults.

Ash Zealot can't stay back on defense, it just gets MJ'd/Blood'd/Shocked.

I feel like the only way I can possibly beat Turn 1 FDS/Cackler Turn 2 BTE -> Gore-House/Firefist Turn 3 Phoenix/Ash Zealot/Swing Mutavault would be Anger of the Gods.

I guess it's
possible that I'm playing the matchup wrong, but it really doesn't feel like there's anything I could be doing differently.

How are you scrying, sideboarding, and sequencing lands and spells? What is your priority list for killing their creatures? Generally, if you can keep above 10 life by turn 4, you can get your head above water. With 16-18 spells to stay on tempo, that should be generally not an issue. Sometimes you get awful draws of skullcrack/charm game 1 but game 2, all of your cards should be live.

[zemanjaski]

what is your current configuration Zem, and how are you liking it?

I feel like Firedancers are basically an autowin vs a huge amount of decks which are a small percentage of the meta. But, summing them up, it's an amount between 10 and 25% of each metagame.

I think they are worth their slots.

Are you running something like this, Zem?

[deck=Sideboard?!]4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Viashino Firstblade
1 Mutavault
3 Fated Conflagration[/deck]

I usually won't honour requests for decklists, especially when I just posted the current version recently, but you're new so here goes:

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn for GPT Nagoya as at 9:55am on 20-March-14]
Creatures
4 Ash
Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
1 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade[/deck]

[rcwraspy]

Z, what are your matchup thoughts on U/W or Esper control? Not looking for sideboard advice, but just thoughts on how the matchup stands in general. I've always felt we're favored, so I rarely put Firedrinkers in the board since I think I can get there without it.

[zemanjaski]

UW is 58%, Esper is 67% from my notes.

[Kaitscralt]

unless it's me then it's 2%

[zemanjaski]

You single handedly got my UW matchup under 60%.

[Jonnymagic]

Awesome scenario of the night -- had esper to 3, lightning strike and wild ricochet in hand. I dome him with lightning strike, he dissolves it, I copy the lightning bolt and the damage goes through. Boomskies.

[zemanjaski]

Did he flip the table?

[Valdarith]

Technically the correct choice would have been to copy the Dissolve to scry. Just something to remember next time when your Lightning Strike isn't lethal.

[Jonnymagic]

Oh I've done that before. This one was for the lulz >=D. I've done it before where the sequence is sphinx > skullcrack > dissolve > skullcrack > dispell > ricochet targeting dissolve. Targeting the lightning strike was just to rub it in, lol. I've won a game before also by wild ricocheting my own helix to gain 8 when he tapped out to go all in for the kill.

[DXI-Edge]

Went 3-0-1 at my local standard, ID'ing my last round vs. UW Control

.... with Archangel of Thune, Elixir, Blind Obedience and Fiendslayer Paladin. We played for "fun". That was fun...lol.

Seriously though, it was close, but one interaction came up that has made me cut Viashino Firstblade: Blind Obedience.

It then becomes a 3 mana 2/2 with that card. And then I got thinking. Why am I running this card over Young Pyromancer?

Its better vs. BW, UW, Esper, and Mono-Black. AND The mirror!

So this is what I'm going to run next week

[deck]
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

3 Chained to the Rocks

3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet

3 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
9 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Blind
Obedience
2 Spark Trooper
[/deck]

Gonna work on some of the numbers in the coming days, but I am off the Firstblade plan for now.

The sideboard is what will change the most, as it always does with my decks.

[Purp]

All the SCG articles for control decks are recommending Blind Obediance to help against SBD and the rise of burn decks, time for wear//tear?

[DriftingLifted]

SCG Premium Video of Sam Black playing this Burn list. 59/60 of our main. http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... ndard.html

[DECK]
Creatures (8)

4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
Planeswalkers (1)

1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (24)

10 Mountain
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Spells (27)

2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
3 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

SIDEBOARD:
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Spark Trooper
1 Viashino Firstblade
1 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/DECK]

[NerdBoyWonder]

All the SCG articles for control decks are recommending Blind Obediance to help against SBD and the rise of burn decks, time for wear//tear?

My brother was right on the money wanting to add that to his sideboard in prep for the GPT and for GP Phoenix because he was afraid of my deck even more so post board. Something we definitely should consider putting at least 1 in the side since it could put a damper on our post board man plan.

[Purp]

He plays pretty terribly.

BBDs proposed esper deck

[deck]
Creatures (1)

1 Aetherling
Planeswalkers (7)

3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (27)

4 Island
2 Plains
1 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Silence
2 Watery Grave
Spells (25)

4 Detention Sphere
4 Dissolve
2 Doom Blade
2 Last Breath
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize
Sideboard

3 Archangel of Thune
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Blind Obedience
2 Gainsay
2 Ultimate Price
1 Revoke Existence
1 Thoughtseize[/deck]

Proposing this deck: Looks similar to Big Boros end of last season

---

[deck]Creatures (14)

4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers (2)

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)

11 Mountain
2
Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Spells (20)

3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
2 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Spark Trooper
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

[NerdBoyWonder]

Them Skullcracks should be main.

[zemanjaski]

Depends on your expected meta. The players at SCG events seem to be irrationally in love with GR Monsters, so Skullcrack in the board is justifiable for that meta.

[zemanjaski]

Went 3-0-1 at my local standard, ID'ing my last round vs. UW Control

.... with Archangel of Thune, Elixir, Blind Obedience and Fiendslayer Paladin. We played for "fun". That was fun...lol.

Seriously though, it was close, but one interaction came up that has made me cut Viashino Firstblade: Blind Obedience.

It then becomes a 3 mana 2/2 with that card. And then I got thinking. Why am I running this card over Young Pyromancer?

Its better vs. BW, UW, Esper, and Mono-Black. AND The mirror!

So this is what I'm going to run next week

[deck]
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

3 Chained to the Rocks

3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet

3 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
n4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
9 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Blind Obedience
2 Spark Trooper
[/deck]

Gonna work on some of the numbers in the coming days, but I am off the Firstblade plan for now.

The sideboard is what will change the most, as it always does with my decks.

STOP TEMPTING ME WITH YOUNG PYROMANCER.

[zemanjaski]

LOL @ the comments to Sam Black's article and LOL @ his play.

[Kaitscralt]

why do you guys have scg premium

[LaZerBurn]

Insightful commentary and he sounds like a really charismatic guy too

[Valdarith]

"Should have played the good version of the deck that won SCG Seattle."

LOL.

[Purp]

So lets discuss one major point from all the articles though. If Blind Obediance starts being seen as a 2 of if an all control decks, whats our solution?

[Jonnymagic]

I've been using 2 wear/tear in my board for about 3 weeks now. I will always board it in for u/w control. I still think it's a versatile answer for some cards that are real issues with the deck: whip, courser, and dsphere -- and it has incidental value in other matchups like hexproof. I've won games vs hexproof bc I save it for their lifelink enchantment exclusively. Even mono B aggro now boards in gift of orzhova, and in that matchup it also hits herald. I've been very happy with it overall. Occasionally its a dead card, but for the times that it is im generally winning because their problem cards haven't hit the table.

[Toddington]

What are the options, Wear//Tear, Revoke Existance, Glare of Heresy, Keening Apparition?

Wear//Tear does seem the best, basically because it's an instant?

[Jonnymagic]

Reasons I like it over revoke:
1.)It actually kills some relevant creatures.
2.)Instant
3.)It deals with artifacts also, most importantly the god weapons.

I kind of want to test out keening apparition, but it feels a bit too clunky. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though. =D

[BlakLanner]

Apparition is very clunky. Being a creature is sometimes useful to get out early but most decks that have enchantments we need to kill can simply throw a removal spell at it before they drop said enchantment. Revoke kills gods but otherwise, I think Wear/Tear is our best option since it kills enchantments and artifacts, is cheap, in our colors, and is an instant.

[rcwraspy]

I played a quick 2-man against R/w Devotion last night, and he brought in Revoke in game 3 after BlOb did so much work game 2. Honestly it really didn't matter very much. I think something we REALLY need to consider is whether it's worth it to bring in a full card to get rid of something that has minimal or incremental impact.

The options:
Wear // Tear - Hits any non-indestructible artifact/enchantment, so can hit enchant creatures like Boon Satyr, Courser, Firedancer, as well as BlOb and DSphere
Revoke Existence - Has more targets than Wear // Tear because Gods, but can't 2-for-1
Renounce the Guilds - only relevant Gods it will hit are Xenagos and Ephara, but also helps against DSphere, Blood Baron, Obzedat, and some of G/R's fatties.
Glare of Heresy - for anything white and hits white Gods (Ephara probably only
relevant one right now)

[JohnnyfnB]

Anyone want to lead a discussion on Mortars v Fated Conflag with me? I want someone to verify or contest my analysis.

- Mortars is two mana, TWO MANA. Against small aggro that's a huge upside.
- Four damage kills most things that we want killing (Nightveil Spectre, Blood Baron, Courser of Kruphix, random aggro creatures)
- Fated Conflagration hits like a fucking horse. It kills actually everything, including any problematic Planeswalker. Specifically, hitting Stormbreath Dragon at instant speed is relevant; as is being able to kill Polukranos without the 2-for-1.
- 1RRR is relatively hard to cast, although with 20 red sources I should be OK (sometimes it'll be a 5-drop though and that's getting really sucky).

I lean towards Mortars if I am expecting
more small aggro or Mono U devotion. Mortars is just really good against those decks (2 mana to kill Frostburn Weird or Nightveil Specter is pretty damn good; Fated Conflagration is often going to be too slow to relevantly impact the board, especially if they have Judge's Familiar about).

I would say that overall, Fated Conflagration is better against GR than Mortars, especially if you're on the Firedancer plan (because then killing a Courser is pretty fucking easy), as you're most;y worried about them killing you with burst damage once a Firedancer is set up. Fated is also really nice to bring in against Control; hits everything that Fated hits and kills Planeswalkers which is nice; I usually have 2 Mortars in after sideboard which can sometimes get stranded; Fated would let me answer Jace and keep a burn spell in hand for my opponent (that's kinda like CA) and the scry 2 is obviously super powerful in the deck.

Expected field:
- GR Monsters and Esper: I think Fated
Conflagration is better
- Mono U and Aggro: I think Mizzium Mortars is better

With all of that said, I think Fated Conflragation might be a better call for the weekend. I'm not going to be able to test it much, so I am thinking 2 copies of Fated Conflagration supporting 4 Satyr Firedancer, instead of the previous 3 Mortars and 3 Firedancer. Why? Cost. Cheaper is better. This would also give me nine cards for control (4 Firedrinker, 3 Viashino, 2 Fated) to replace all my bad cards (3 Chains, 3 Shock, 3 Searing Blood) which is SWEET.

This means giving up a small number of points against Mono U (in theory) as I lose early interaction with Mortars, but I hope to gain that back my running the full playset of Firedancer (card they can never beat).

Against GR, I would say that overall, Fated Conflagration is a net-plus to the matchup as it answers the cards you actually lose to (Polukranos and Stormbreath Dragon) whereas Mortars won't always (and Courser of Kruphix is annoying Game 1, but relatively
inconsequential given my sideboard strategy after board; its aimed around invalidating this creature).

So, get at me. Am I right or wrong?

New sb would look like this:

[deck]
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
1 Spark Trooper
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

vs. UWx: -3 Chained to the Rocks, -3 Searing Blood, -3 Shock; +2 Fated Conflagration, +4 Firedrinker Satyr, +3 Viashino Firstblade
vs. GR Monsters and Mono U: -4 Ash Zealot, -4 Skullcrack; +1 Chained to the Rocks, +2 Fated Conflagration, +4 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Spark Trooper

Still working out how I want to play vs. MBC; one of NZ's top players has offered to jump online with me and test friday night so I can feel confident (that's G0D_L1K3 from the mtgo top 10 rankings). Will let you know what I come up with ofc.

Last night ran the gauntlet till 2am (I'm fuckin beat like a baby seal, so forgive me for lack of details, grammar and non sensical wording) Had really
good interaction and discussion between games and afterwards about the decks. We switched constantly through the night, but got a lot of testing. The decks I faced: Hite's B/W Mid that just placed 2nd, Jund that placed 11th at the last local 5k, Boros aggro and a brewed old school style of Jund.

11th place Jund: 10 games played. We split 5/5. Mind you we played 5 games at a time and didn't side until game 3. If we did best out of 3, I would have had a better record. I had 3 Mizzium Mortars in side and before the game I subbed 2 Fated Conflagration. Both cards were played and worked well. The rock star of the two was FC. It saved my ass when he Golgari Charmed my CttR on his Reaper. In response I FC'd it. It was awesome and won me the game. Very happy with FC.

Hite's B/W Mid that just placed 2nd: 6 games played. I won 5/1. I was very surprised, the deck ran like a machine, a killing machine. The first 2 games he pressed Pack Rats, which I answered immediately and he just wasted
mana and cards. The only game I lost was when he had 3 DD's out. The game before I beat him with 2 out. Once again Fated Conflagration was awesome. When he played Blood Baron, he just was Fated.

Homebrew Jund: 5 games played. I won 5/0. To be honest, he is relatively a new player and has 3 decks he goes back and fourth with. Even then, he is a decent player and the games were more instructional for him than testing for me.

21 games and I won 15 (most of the first games vs Jund we didn't side) I was happy and even though Mizzium Mortars is faster and has the overload potential, I am completely replacing them with Fated Conflagrations. I will make a few more sideboard changes for FNM. I will report when my head is clearer on that event.

FATED FUCKIN CONFLAGRATION!

[Valdarith]

I like the flexibility Glare of Heresy offers since you can also board it in against Esper midrange with some effectiveness. You can actually bring it in vs Hexproof too so you can nab Unflinching Courage or Ethereal Armor. It hits all the things you want to hit in the UWx control match but sorcery speed is a drawback.

[Kaitscralt]

Just accept Blind Obedience as a part of life, don't sideboard reactive cards

[Jonnymagic]

I would generally agree, but wear/tear played in this deck can be tempo. It functions like a chained to the rocks, a card we would just lose without. For one mana it destroys cards that we would otherwise just lose to, or in the case of g/r functions as a 5th chains which is arguably our best card in the matchup. If we can wear something for one and tack on burn, that is tempo which is difficult for the opponent to come back from. I've been using 2 for a few weeks and have always been happy with it.

[Jedi_Knight]

Proposing this deck: Looks similar to Big Boros end of last season

---

[deck]Creatures (14)

4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers (2)

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)

11 Mountain
2 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Spells (20)

3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
2 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Spark Trooper
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

seems like we're back to where we ended before BotG hit. Just with more burn. I like this (mainly
because I've been playing Big Boros). Your construction? I may try some games with that, because I do miss me some Chandra's ultimates.