[Primer] Boros Burn

[Aodh]

And we can't cast him on T1 when he'd even be remotely relevant.

[Elricity]

Would SotP be enough to turn the mirror favorable? He is a lot easier to cast and their charms and helixes would only do 3.

Easier to cast than what?

You can answer this question yourself but here's the key questions.

1) If your enemy plays this card, how do you usually respond. Is this scenario favorable or unfavorable to you?
2) In the decks that play this card already, how well do you do against them?

[cloudscraper]

How would you board against jund monsters with the "creatureless" version with just 4 phoenixes and maindeck t/t?

Board is:
4 firedrinker
4 firedancer
2 chandra
2 assemble
1 glare

I'd like to keep t/t in, when on the play, if they do not have mystic it seems awesome. On the draw? Firedancers in t/t slots?

[gozmit97]

Just got my first hater! he said such lovely things as "Lucky you!" and "You play exceptionally poorly" and when i asked what i did wrong he said "You don't play around ANYTHING!". Ok, i did miss a landdrop game 1 because i'm not to experienced on MTGO, but i still kicked his ass.

[Valdarith]

Best thing to do on MODO is hide the chat box. A lot of butthurt nerds like to vent on MODO and it's a much better place for them to do it vs paper Magic where they don't have the compulsion to say it to your face.

I actually enjoy the tears though, so I keep the chat box revealed.

[Tyrael]

Can you post images in the chat on MODO? It'd be totally hilarious if you could post the 'your tears are delicious' meme there

[Valdarith]

Nope, no images. It's a 90's client after all.

[InflatablePie]

I know someone just got yelled at for talking about cards yet-to-be-released, but I would like to point out the new land that was announced, Mana Confluence. Something to possibly play over Guildgates in order to hit white mana more effectively, but obviously speeding up the mirror due to the lifeloss.

I know Z in particular likes to think a lot about his manabase so I'm interested to hear your guys' opinions once you get a chance to play around with it. Another thing to keep in mind is that I've heard GW may get more popular with this since it improves the manabase more than the Temple, so the metagame could shift in a way that forces Burn to change their cards choices a bit. Also, lack of tempo loss in Naya Hexproof variants (that maindeck lifegain to offset the lifeloss from lands) could be bad.

anyway, just something
to keep in mind in the next month or so. carry on.

[Purp]

I see no reason why we wouldnt run that over the guildgates.

[lorddax]

Getting caught up, after not playing all week.

Between YP version and no YP version which one would you guys run in a meta thats typical FNM style? Decks from all over the place including left field but round 3 is usually versus a known deck like control(Esper, UW) or Aggo(MBA, Minotaur Aggro). My initial inkling is to continue with my YP build as its the better insurance vs random deck while still having good late round MUs, like I suddenly found myself playing vs dredge game 1.

Speaking of dredge, how do you guys usually evaluate your spells compared to the targets?

Howler eats a chains everytime I see it but LULtroll is the one where I think the answer varies. Do you try to force the cards out of their hand, but let them sculpt their bin? I've bounced between answering it as soon as it drops versus waiting until they can't buff it enough. I've also considered this card the bigger lynch pin over howler as the
troll can close out on its own and its the troll that needs to be dealt with first. Do you guys even consider the Jarrad? In game two I find myself siding out my charms for removal as the golgari charm reactivating a previous threat seems bad. I've toyed with pulling YP for assemble, but YP token stone walls their deck as only one of their creatures has trample. What do you guys think?

[zenbitz]

Did you see the Mezzel ran FSP? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/227778

With _21_ lands? That's not mathematically sound, is it?

[Aodh]

No; 1WW wants 19 W sources.

[DXI-Edge]

Either trying my updated Mono-Blue list, Esper, or this burn list. Thoughts?

[deck]
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Shock
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil // Trouble
4 Warleader's Helix

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
5 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

Keep in mind that this change is an easy swap:
-4 Satyr Firedancer
+2 Spark Trooper
+2 Mizzium Mortars

[Elricity]

No; 1WW wants 19 W sources.

Don't believe that's true for most of the standard decks. You only want 19 if you're trying to cast on turn 2 but 18 is the minimum.

On play, turn 3:
68% chance on 14 lands which I believe is considered the minimum.
73% chance you hit it on play with 16 lands.
84% with 19 lands.

[JohnnyfnB]

DXI-Edge play the burn! If you have tested it and feel comfortable with it, play it. Control will be making a big push and of the 3 choices, I would want your burn deck. IMO Good Luck!

[zenbitz]

Well, in the mirror I am not sure you actually need to play FSP on curve... just before you lose. What concerns me about his manabase is ever casting WLH with 19.... or having 4 mana to cast 2 spells/turn.
It concerns me so much that I think the most logical interpretation that he has 3-4 mutavaults and they didn't make it mtggoldfish.com.

[Elricity]

The deck there adds up to 60 cards so nope. Sometimes a deck can just get lucky while being bad. See: Hammer in his sideboard.

[zenbitz]

Attempt to disbelieve! /roll.

[Aodh]

No; 1WW wants 19 W sources.

Don't believe that's true for most of the standard decks. You only want 19 if you're trying to cast on turn 2 but 18 is the minimum.

On play, turn 3:
68% chance on 14 lands which I believe is considered the minimum.
73% chance you hit it on play with 16 lands.
84% with 19 lands.

I want to be able to cast my spells more than 3/4 of the time.

[JohnnyfnB]

Attempt to disbelieve! /roll.

I rolled a 20!

[zenbitz]

The deck there adds up to 60 cards so nope. Sometimes a deck can just get lucky while being bad. See: Hammer in his sideboard.

OK, maybe he just always rage quits if he get mana flooded. I mean if you really hate lands Hammer is OK.

[LaZerBurn]

So my G3 Vs MonoB was fun

T2 eot Boros Charm - 16
T3 Trouble for 7 - 9
T4 Trouble for 6 - 3
T5 Strike - GG

[JohnnyfnB]

So my G3 Vs MonoB was fun

T2 eot Boros Charm - 16
T3 Trouble for 7 - 9
T4 Trouble for 6 - 3
T5 Strike - GG

That's actually sexual!

[Aodh]

Maybe running the Toil // Trouble version at FNM. How many black sources do you all run?

[Elricity]

No; 1WW wants 19 W sources.

Don't believe that's true for most of the standard decks. You only want 19 if you're trying to cast on turn 2 but 18 is the minimum.

On play, turn 3:
68% chance on 14 lands which I believe is considered the minimum.
73% chance you hit it on play with 16 lands.
84% with 19 lands.

I want to be able to cast my spells more than 3/4 of the time.

When it's your splash
color? Esper doesn't even hit 19 mana sources on its primary color, generally. I think you're a little demanding on your mana base on this one.

[Aodh]

You're splashing a WW spell! FSP is a bad card in the first place, so if I'm going to run it, it better be really, really good, and I only think it is good if it's cast on-curve. I am very conservative with mana, yes, but 64% to cast your spell on-time if you shock turn 3 and take run 1 or turn 2 off, or if you take both off, just seems terrible.

[Elricity]

"Splash" as in it's only a couple cards in your deck and sideboard at that. FSP is bad in burn because of the stats on the card, this I agree. It's not because you need 19 sources for it though. I don't even think you need 19 sources for Phoenix, to be honest. I already did that math a while back.

I'm not crazy on this. Esper and Jund are already doing this with their mana base.

I'm also not entirely sure I'd want to tap out for it right on turn 3 as the chance of them have a chain that early is somewhat decent. I'd rather gas them a bit first. Of course, Chandra is far better at that stage of the game.

[Elricity]

So, on another note, saw what I thought were junk colors so I scried down a skullcrack. Then he played maze's end. Awkward. Got another and roasted him anyway but still.

Why in god's name are Maze's end players activating it on their main phase? Boggles my mind.

[magicdownunder]

The deck there adds up to 60 cards so nope. Sometimes a deck can just get lucky while being bad. See: Hammer in his sideboard.

Mezzel has the most experience out of all of us when it comes too burn (he made the first posted finish with burn pre-BnG if you guys recall and he has been playing it ever since) so if he is getting lucky he is getting lucky VERY VERY often (I think you guys are underrating "scry" here, it can do magic with your "luck".....).

That said I don't think his deck is great but he clearly built it with a grinder perspective in mind - if you look at his SB he has answers for EVERYTHING which is decent for an unknown meta (though obv. horrible if your going into a large event
expecting T1 all day).

[Valdarith]

So, on another note, saw what I thought were junk colors so I scried down a skullcrack. Then he played maze's end. Awkward. Got another and roasted him anyway but still.

Why in god's name are Maze's end players activating it on their main phase? Boggles my mind.

This is standard practice. It allows you to activate Maze's End and replay it on the same turn.

[Elricity]

I guess. Gave me so much free damage though.

[zenbitz]

Maybe he is such a good player he can overcome the weaknesses in his mana base?

[Elricity]

This was orgasmic. Playing against Junk, 1-1. I have an active assemble on the board. He courser reveals his gaze of granite so I start trying to play around it with my tokens. I'm low on life, he's been gaining a ton.

I chain the 4/4 ooze. I swing with most of my tokens, leaving a couple back to block since he can gaze sweep them anyway. He says mistake which I can only assume means chaining the ooze (with no creatures in the yards). He gazes for 5 while I'm on topdeck, gets ooze back and I just chain it again and say "perhaps". He has lethal next turn and I topdeck mortars to overload. We draw go for a bit, I get my second assemble while I'm holding a toil/trouble and at 2 life. He plays archangel. I have 1 mortar, 3 helix, and 1 chain as an out. Top deck helix, blast it, toil up a couple more cards and lock out the game.

And just before he rage disconnects, I say "but perhaps not".

First
time Toil has worked that well for me to be honest. I think I've just become a far better player with the card though.

And no, I haven't been recording my games =[

[JohnnyfnB]

Went 3-1 (2nd place) lost a close G3 to G/R monsters. Kalonian Hydra targeted by Xenagos is not fun. Went 2-0 vs b/w control. G1 back to back troubles for 11. Sexual chocolate baby! I run the dega burn version with just Chandra's Phoenix main. I adjusted the mana by dropping 1 Blood Crypt for a Boros Guildgate. That hit the spot.

[Elricity]

I'm still playing with 8 scry lands and 2 gates. Only regretted it once...which was the last game of the DE when I had to mass scry down until I got a mountain. =\

Going to go ahead and put dancers back in my board and try 3 toil, 3 dancer, 3 peak. Probably a mistake, likely to just remove peak eruption for now since I never see the mirror.

[Aodh]

I somehow lost against MBrD with T5 Assemble, T6 Assemble. Then lost the mirror to mulligans and beat him like 6 times afterwards. :'(

[GodzillaAteMe]

I played the Toil/Trouble version tonight at FNM and it straight up destroyed the Mono B decks I faced. Usually hit for at least 6-7 when I cast it.

It's also surprisingly good against Dredge; they're rarely dumping the entire hand (unless a Lotleth is out).

Of course, I played against 2 Naya Hexproof as well >.<

[TBuzzsaw]

Went 3-2-1. I won my first three rounds, I gave the 4th round win to a friend since it was his last FNM before he started boot camp, tied the 5th round with a friend, but then drew absolute crap the last round.

I only got to play FSP against Mono Black. He got to attack once before getting Devour Fleshed. If there's one card I'm really disappointed in is PE. Every time I had it in my hand I've wished it was something else.

Anyways I lost badly to RW Devotion that was able to crap out their hands by turn four. If you don't have the right cards it's practically an auto-lost, even if they don't have god-hands.

Back to the drawing board.

[magicdownunder]

@TBuzzsaw:

The list you were on was designed too provided more favorable games against control and the mirror at the small expense toward aggro, midrange and black (Just because people call Bx Devotion MBC doesn't mean its shares the same weakness as traditional control esp. post board with 8 discards spells).

I'll highly recommend running the 8 creature version in an more aggressive metagame either YP or Ash (I prefer YP$).

[TBuzzsaw]

I would leave YP$ in, but the red players in my meta likes to run the full 4 of Searing Blood (don't get it either).

I basically won against Mono B, Esper, and Jund tonight., with Jund being the easiest.